Episode #44: Memories, Fishing Nets, and The Importance of Behavioral Science

Guest: Colin Shaw

According to this week’s guest, “Too many organizations have jumped on the customer experience bandwagon without understanding what it is.” As it turns out, the key to successfully jumping on the bandwagon includes harnessing the power of memories, playing with fishing nets, and jumping into behavioral science. Join us this week as we kick off season five of The Combustion Chronicles with bestselling author, podcast host, and LinkedIn influencer, Colin Shaw, CEO and Founder of Beyond Philosophy, who’s on a mission to change the face of customer experience by inspiring companies to focus on their customers.

About Shawn Nason

shawn@mofi.co | ShawnNason.com | @manonfiresocial

Shawn Nason, founder and CEO of MOFI, best-selling author, and former Walt Disney Imagineer, lives his life with a commitment to create radical relationships with everyone he meets. Armed with the gift of discernment, he has the uncanny ability to walk alongside people and organizations as they struggle to connect with their deepest passions and engage their most debilitating demons. He challenges the world around him to be fully present, get real, and lead with empathy.

Prior to launching MOFI, Shawn was the chief experience & transformation officer for Healthways and served as the chief innovation officer for Xavier University. He also spent six years at The Walt Disney Company in various capacities within Walt Disney Imagineering and Disney Cruise Line. He’s an in-demand speaker and coach, the author of two books, Kiss Your Dragons: Radical Relationships, Bold Heartsets, & Changing the World (2021) and The Power of YES! in Innovation (2017), and the host of The Combustion Chronicles podcast.

About Colin Shaw

Founder & CEO of Beyond Philosophy

Pioneer in Customer Experience & Loyalty

Best-Selling Author, Podcast Host, & LinkedIn Influencer

About mofi

A human-obsessed boutique design firm passionate about reimagining Experience Ecosystems™.

info@mofi.co | mofi.co | @mofisocial

Businesses are more than org charts, strategy documents, and mission statements. They’re living, breathing ecosystems filled with people and people-driven processes that make an impact on the world.

At MOFI, we refuse to look at one piece of the puzzle (customer service, employee experience, vendor relationships, leadership, culture, marketplace awareness, etc.) without engaging your entire Experience Ecosystem as we tackle the biggest and hairiest experience, innovation, and culture challenges that you can send our way. Why? Because we we’re more interested in long-term results than innovation theater.


Customer & Employee Experience—Increase your revenue and market share by aligning, equipping, and empowering the people in your Experience Ecosystem to create game-changing experiences.

Consumer-Centered Innovation—Move at the speed of your customers by harnessing the mindsets and processes of human-centered design to dream up, test, and launch fresh ideas into your business model.

Organizational Transformation—Position your organization for long-term sustainability by shifting the mindsets and heartsets of the people who represent your brand in the world.

Episode Takeaways

  • After reading the book, Who Moved My Cheese?, Colin embraced the question, "What would you do if you weren't scared?" and started his own business.
  • Organizations who jump into customer experience (CX) without knowing what they're doing (because everyone else is doing it), end up not being successful because they're not committed.
  • Customer experience is a function of memory. People don’t choose between experiences, they choose between the memory of an experience. This is why CX professionals need to pay attention to how memories are made.
  • Think of experience like a fishing net that moves between the surface (people's consciousness) and being submerged in the water (people's subconsciousness). The knots of the net are connected to each other, which means that they are always affecting each other. Same thing happens with all of the different experiences that we have.
  • CX needs to move from making people react to things to being proactive by predicting what people need based on the data gathered about them through AI.
  • The best way to tear down experience silos in organizations is to align the entire organization around a common measurement.
  • Fear holds companies and leaders back from creating better CX. To overcome the fear, leaders need to look through the lens of the customer.

[Overheard on the Podcast]

"And the point I'm trying to make is, those memories have effectively got an email attachment of the emotion that you're feeling. So, it raises some really interesting questions, from a customer experience perspective... if the peak-end rule forms the memory, the peak emotion or the end emotion, it makes some really interesting questions like, what emotion are you evoking in your customers at the moment, at the peak, and at the end?"

[Overheard on the Podcast]

"But for a lot of organizations, I think that they just think, 'Well, everybody else is doing it. So, we better do it.' And they just, sort of, jumped on the bandwagon. And the reality is is that because of that, they don't do it very well."
"And the challenge that I think we have with customer experience... is that everybody thinks they understand what it means, but actually they don't.... And, you know, it's a bit like your [experience] ecosystem. They don't understand the entire ecosystem."

[Overheard on the Podcast]

"Imagine that you had a fishing net. And imagine that the fishing net is below the water. And below the water is effectively the subconscious, you know, the things that you are not aware of.... So, now imagine picking up a knot of that fishing net and imagine pulling it up out of the water. And that knot is effectively a memory. It could be the memory of a restaurant that you went to last week. But it's a fishing net because it's attached to other knots, which are other memories."
"And on your [experience] ecosystem, it's like picking up the digital experience, looking at the digital experience, but you know what, their experience is influenced by lots of these other things that you have on there, in that ecosystem.... They're attached together and they influence each other. And some of those things are below the waterline, in the subconscious, but are still part of that net. And some of the things, because you're examining it, are things that you are thinking about, remembering, and it's, now above the waterline.

Books by Colin Shaw

Colin's Podcast

Hosted by Colin Shaw and Prof. Ryan Hamilton, The Intuitive Customer podcast discusses how to improve customer experience and gain growth by understanding customer behavior.

A sampling of Colin's Videos

Customer Experience vs. Customer Service

Colin Shaw Interview on CX Masters Podcast Series

The Relationship between Memory Creation, Human Emotion, and Customer Loyalty

Trends Discussed in the Podcast

AI and Predictive Analytics

Predictive analytics use science to predict what will happen in the future —everything from what customers will want to how the market will perform and the biggest trends. Brands can use this information to target the right customers and provide personalized service and recommendations.
  • Sprint uses an AI-powered algorithm to identify the customers at risk of churn and proactively provide personalized retention offers.
  • Harley Davidson uses an AI program called Albert to identify potential high-value customers ready to make a purchase.
  • Volvo uses data to predict when cars need to be serviced and what parts need to be repaired or replaced.
  • Netflix uses data for personalized recommendations. About 80% of what is watched on Netflix is due to the recommendations. Having such a strong system saves the company $1 billion a year in customer retention.
  • Caesar’s Palace collects data on its guests and then uses that to predict what types of upgrades would be most effective for each guest.


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